Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #150

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #149

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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Wenn nur die Haelfte, nur ein Viertel von dem so zutraefe, wie Geissler es beschreibt, denn ...

...wie z.B. der Spiegel schreibt:
"Auf den neuen Papst Franziskus wartet eine Kirche, die gespalten ist - und mit massiven Problemen zu kämpfen hat: die ungeklärte Vatileaks-Affäre, die Machenschaften der Vatikanbank, der Missbrauchsskandal. ..."

Die Erwartungen an den neuen Papst sind immens - und widersprüchlich. Franziskus wird sie unmöglich alle erfüllen können.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...s-a-888916.html

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...dann bräuchten die ein Herkules, keinen Franz, um den Stall auszumisten.

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #151

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #150

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #149

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

---

Wenn nur die Haelfte, nur ein Viertel von dem so zutraefe, wie Geissler es beschreibt, denn ...

...wie z.B. der Spiegel schreibt:
"Auf den neuen Papst Franziskus wartet eine Kirche, die gespalten ist - und mit massiven Problemen zu kämpfen hat: die ungeklärte Vatileaks-Affäre, die Machenschaften der Vatikanbank, der Missbrauchsskandal. ..."

Die Erwartungen an den neuen Papst sind immens - und widersprüchlich. Franziskus wird sie unmöglich alle erfüllen können.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...s-a-888916.html

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...dann bräuchten die ein Herkules, keinen Franz, um den Stall auszumisten.

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Nee, nur Macht und den Willen. Und da der ja angeblich die Macht hat....

Wenn es ihm am Durchsetzungsvermoegen fehlen solle, dann kann er mich ja mal fuer 6 Monate ganz unverbindlich anheuern. Ich miste dem den Laden schon aus.:-)

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #152

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #151

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #150

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #149

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

---

Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

---

Wenn nur die Haelfte, nur ein Viertel von dem so zutraefe, wie Geissler es beschreibt, denn ...

...wie z.B. der Spiegel schreibt:
"Auf den neuen Papst Franziskus wartet eine Kirche, die gespalten ist - und mit massiven Problemen zu kämpfen hat: die ungeklärte Vatileaks-Affäre, die Machenschaften der Vatikanbank, der Missbrauchsskandal. ..."

Die Erwartungen an den neuen Papst sind immens - und widersprüchlich. Franziskus wird sie unmöglich alle erfüllen können.
http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...s-a-888916.html

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...dann bräuchten die ein Herkules, keinen Franz, um den Stall auszumisten.

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Nee, nur Macht und den Willen. Und da der ja angeblich die Macht hat....

Wenn es ihm am Durchsetzungsvermoegen fehlen solle, dann kann er mich ja mal fuer 6 Monate ganz unverbindlich anheuern. Ich miste dem den Laden schon aus.:-)

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Ob er in seinem Alter noch die Kraft hat?

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #151

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Wenn es ihm am Durchsetzungsvermoegen fehlen solle, dann kann er mich ja mal fuer 6 Monate ganz unverbindlich anheuern. Ich miste dem den Laden schon aus.:-)

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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Jorge Bergoglio hat u. a. ein Buch geschrieben, das den Titel trägt: Corrupcion y pecado, zu Deutsch "Korruption und Sünde". Ich wünsche den Mitgliedern der italienischen "casta", vor allem Silvio Berlusconi, viel Vergnügen bei der Lektüre.

http://www.amazon.de/Corrupcion-y-Pecado...63287189&sr=8-1

Zitat von Maga-neu im Beitrag #146

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Und: Außergewöhnliche Umstände erlauben außergewöhnliche Maßnahmen.

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Zitat von Nante im Beitrag #157

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Zitat von Maga-neu im Beitrag #146

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Und: Außergewöhnliche Umstände erlauben außergewöhnliche Maßnahmen.

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Warum? An der Anzahl der oder dem Zuwachs der Gläubigen kann's nicht liegen. Du hast Dich ja neulich optimistisch geäußert. Liegt der Grund für Deine Besorgnis in der Kurie?

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Religion Among Americans Hits Low Point, As More People Say They Have No Religious Affiliation: Report
The number of Americans who claim to have no religious affiliation is the highest it has ever been since data on the subject started being collected in the 1930s, new research has found.

Sociologists from the University of California, Berkeley, and Duke University analyzed results from the General Social Survey and found that the number of people who do not consider themselves part of an organized religion has jumped dramatically in recent years.

Back in the 1930s and 1940s, the number of "nones" -- those who said they were religiously unaffiliated -- hovered around 5 percent, Claude Fischer, one of the researchers with UC Berkeley, told The Huffington Post. That number had risen to only 8 percent by 1990.
But since then, the number of people who don't consider themselves part of a religion has increased to 20 percent.
"This was not happening really for decades, until around 1990 when it started to take off," Fischer told HuffPost. "One thing striking is the trend in terms of renouncing religious affiliation you might say continues to move up at a regular pace, while there is hardly any perceptible trend in the percentage of people who express atheist or agnostic beliefs."

However, it should be noted that the research looks at whether or not a person associates himself with a particular faith; it does not measure how spiritual a person considers himself to be.
"When you're talking about whether people affirm a religion, you're talking about identifying, 'I'm a Catholic,'" Fischer explained. "Identifying is a different issue than people's beliefs, whether they believe in God, or life after death."

The research also found that men were more likely than women to claim they have no religion -- 24 percent compared to 16 percent -- and that African Americans and Mexican Americans were more likely to associate themselves with a religion than whites.

But perhaps the most telling numbers pertained to the breakdown of the respondents' politics: 40 percent of liberals claim they have no religion, compared to just 9 percent of conservatives.
Fischer and his colleague, Mike Hout, analyzed similar data 10 years ago and theorized that the shift away from organized religion is directly tied to politics.
"This is a product of the involvement of the religious right in American politics and the increasing connection in Americans' minds, the minds of moderates and liberals, that religion equals conservative politics equals religion," Fischer said.

While Fischer and Hout have not yet conducted further analysis to conclude that these same factors are continuing to drive Americans away from religion today, a heightened national focus on social issues suggests politics may still be playing a pivotal role.
"Increasingly, people identify and link organized religion with anti-gay attitudes, sexual conservatism, a whole range of those kinds of social cultural values," Fischer said. "One way you can think about it is, this is blowback."

The results also echo some of the recent findings the Pew Research Center released in October. The center noted that a third of U.S. adults under the age of 30 don't identify with a religion .
In addition to finding that many Americans don't associate with a specific faith, Pew discovered that many aren't in the market for one.
The report found that, "the unaffiliated say they are not looking for a religion that would be right for them. Overwhelmingly, they think that religious organizations are too concerned with money and power, too focused on rules and too involved in politics."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/13..._n_2867626.html

Survey finds American Catholics’s faith is flagging
As the world awaits the announcement of the new pope, a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the General Social Survey finds that the percentage of U.S. Catholics who consider themselves “strong” members of the Roman Catholic Church has never been lower than it was in 2012.

About a quarter (27%) of American Catholics called themselves “strong” Catholics last year, down more than 15 points since the mid-1980s and among the lowest levels seen in the 38 years since strength of religious identity was first measured in the survey.

The decline among U.S. Catholics is even starker when they are compared with Protestants, whose strength of religious identification has been rising in recent years. About half (54%) of American Protestants – double the Catholic share (27%) – described their particular religious identity as strong last year, among the highest levels since the survey began in 1974.

Strength of religious identity is associated in the survey with higher levels of religious commitment, such as more frequent attendance at worship services. In general, “strong” Catholics report going to Mass more often than do Catholics as a whole, and “strong” Protestants say they attend church more often than do Protestants overall.

Over the past four decades, self-reported church attendance has declined among “strong” Catholics as well as among Catholics overall. The share of all Catholics who say they attend Mass at least once a week has dropped from 47% in 1974 to 24% in 2012; among “strong” Catholics, it has fallen more than 30 points, from 85% in 1974 to 53% last year.

In 1974, Catholics were more likely than Protestants to report attending religious services at least once a week (47% vs. 29%). By 2012, the situation had reversed: Protestants overall were more likely than Catholics to say they attend church weekly or more often (38% vs. 24%). Similarly, in 1974 “strong” Catholics reported going to church more frequently than did “strong” Protestants (85% vs. 55%), but in recent years “strong” Protestants have reported attending church about as often as “strong” Catholics do (60% vs. 53% in 2012).
http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/feature...th-is-flagging/

http://www.pewforum.org/Unaffiliated/non...ise.aspx#growth

A Big Win for Argentina, Not the Church
Marco Cáceres
Editor, Honduras Weekly

There is little to rejoice about in election of Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio as pope. Yeah, the Argentines are ecstatic, and Latin Americans, in general, are happy because one of their own has been promoted to the highest office in the Vatican and become the leader of the world's 1.2 billion Catholics.

But the choice of Cardinal Bergoglio does nothing to help heal the wounds left by the rape and torture of countless children at the hands of pedophile priests and the cover up of this criminal abuse by the Church hierarchy. It does nothing to advance a new of process transparency in the way the Vatican does business, and receptiveness to a serious conversation about how the Church must change in order to survive.

What it does do is send a clear message to the world that the princes of the Catholic Church are content with the status quo and prefer to remain in denial about the mess that surrounds them.

Those who voted for Cardinal Bergoglio on the fifth ballot today may feel comfortable with him because they like the man and think he is a safe pick to guide the Church for the next few years. But all the electors have done really is extend slightly the era of Benedict XVI. Cardinal Bergoglio is a conservative with the same theological and social views as the now pope emeritus -- albeit an infinitely more humble and pastoral one. Vatican insiders will have their way.

The idea that, by choosing a non-European as pope, the Vatican leadership has signaled that it understands the need for change is laughable. Besides his conservative credentials, Cardinal Bergoglio is 77 years old and comes from an Italian family. (Both his parents were Italian immigrants.) He has hardly left Argentina. There is no new thinking here. No new openness. It's pretty much another old Italian guy.

Cardinal Bergoglio seems to be a wonderful man. He lives modestly, rides public transit, and has done incredible work growing the Catholic Church in Argentina. The fact that he is known simply as "Padre Jorge" -- not "Your Eminence" -- says a great deal about him. But he is a dangerous pick for pope because he is merely another place card for the person who will eventually have to lead the Church out of the Middle Ages.

The liberal Italian Cardinal, Carlo Maria Martini, who died last year, was probably being overly generous when he said that the Catholic Church "has remained 200 years in the past, and is not open to the modern world." But he was on target when he said, "Our rites ... are pompous."

Cardinal Martini was among the top two or three contenders (including Cardinal Bergoglio) for the Papacy in 2005. He reportedly received more votes on the first ballot than Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (Benedict XVI), who eventually won out. In retrospect, the Church should've gone with Martini. It missed out on seven precious years of reform.

With Cardinal Bergoglio (now Pope Francis), God knows how many more years the Church will have to wait. In Argentina, they're celebrating like they just won the World Cup. The Catholic Church... eh, not so much.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marco-cace..._b_2869598.html

Led by Francis, a Traumatized Catholic Family Faces the Future
Author, Mortal Sins, Sex, Crime, and the Era of Catholic Scandal

As a new pope -- the first ever to choose the name Francis -- assumes the chair of St. Peter, he faces a community of faith traumatized by scandal. Indeed, if the Catholic Church is a family, then the victims of sexual abuse by priests are the betrayed sons and daughters whose cries have not been heard. Wounded by physical, psychological and spiritual assaults, they keep insisting that something is terribly wrong with an institution that pays millions in attorneys fee to keep secret its conspiracy to hide the facts and help clergy avoid prosecution.

As in most proud but dysfunctional families, the truth these children tell has been too awful for the patriarchs of the clan to accept. They listen, respond as little as possible, and then retreat to the comfort of denial. This family dynamic explains why an abuse crisis that began almost 30 years ago remains unresolved despite billions of dollars paid in legal settlements and the imprisonment of hundreds of priests. It also explains why, just a day before the cardinals elected Benedict XVI's successor, one of their own, retired Cardinal Mahony of Los Angeles, was implicated in yet another abuse scandal that led to a $10 million settlement with victims of notorious abuser Fr. Michael Baker.

The selection of Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who eschewed many of the trappings of office enjoyed by others who led the church in Buenos Aires (he lived alone, cooked for himself and rode the bus to work) is a helpful sign. Similarly, Bergoglio's choice of a papal name -- Francis -- recalls St. Francis of Assisi whose humility and simplicity stand in stark contrast to the monarchical imagery generally associated with the office.

However, before Francis can lead Catholicism out of its shame, and recover some of the church's lost credibility, he must gain a clear view of what has transpired to date. Beginning in the 1980s, lawsuits filed by American victims slowly forced bishops to disclose documentary proof of widespread sexual crimes against children and consistent, deliberate schemes carried out to protect offending priests from police and prosecutors, and shield the institution from disgrace and civil lawsuits. With each disclosure, more victims came forward and eventually the crisis spread across America, to Western Europe, and beyond.

In virtually all cases, bishops have responded by seeking to keep secret as many of the facts as possible and by sending sexual abusers to new posts where they could find new victims. Thousands of children were harmed by this practice. When forced into court, too many bishops have acted like clever witnesses coached by attorneys, responding in the most limited way they can while still satisfying the demands of the law. Their independent actions have included adopting new rules and personnel procedures, and demonstrations of regret and sorrow. However, they have not changed any of the beliefs, teachings and practices that enable abuse in the first place.

For example, before he left the post of archbishop in Milwaukee, New York's Cardinal Timothy Dolan paid-off abusers to get them to leave the priesthood and shifted tens of millions of church dollars into trusts that would be protected from lawsuits filed by people who were raped by priests. Now being examined in a bankruptcy proceeding, this action can be seen as a scheme to deny hundreds of people the justice they deserve.

More recently Dolan's predecessor in New York, Edward Egan, publicly withdrew an apology he once made to Catholics who were abused by clergy when they were children. "I never should have said that," said Egan, "I don't think we did anything wrong."

Astounding as Egan's unscripted comment was, it is nowhere near as appalling as the grotesque crimes against children revealed in periodic releases of documents. In dozens of cases, men and women who were raped by priests have committed suicide to escape the effects this kind of trauma. More typically victims simply struggle through, trying to accommodate the injuries to their self image, mental health and spirituality. Recovery is possible, but the process is generally grueling and it requires a lifetime effort.

Fortunately, even fractured families can offer support and as they have witnessed the pain of their abused brothers and sisters, millions of Catholics have embraced them and felt disillusioned by the behavior of the hierarchs, who call themselves "fathers." They see the failings of men who reject the love that exists in gay marriages and use verbal deflection to justify the church's ongoing oppression of women. They recognize the brutal results of hostility to contraception -- poverty, disease, death -- and cannot understand why it's taking so long for the bishops to embrace common morality.

For decades opinion polls have shown Catholic lay people moving steadily away from their self-appointed leaders, even as the institutional church doubled down on its orthodoxy. During most of this time progressive lay people tolerated the bishops and the pope and continued to embrace what was good in the church. However many have reached a breaking point. This was made clear to me earlier this year in Los Angeles, on the day that former cardinal Mahony's efforts to protect abusing priests were revealed in documents made public by a Superior Court judge. Over lunch one of California's leading laymen, a wealthy donor whose name adorns a wall of the new cathedral, shook his head in disgust and said he hopes the victims won't give up until they force real change.

What would real change look like? It might begin with humble action that opens the Catholic family to full participation by all of its adult members, including women. This is what victims of abuse, and their growing number of supporters must have before they move from confrontation and alienation to productive engagement. It is also what must happen if the church is to again become a relevant and welcomed force for good in all the world.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-da..._b_2871925.html

Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #149

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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[blau]Wenn nur die Haelfte, nur ein Viertel von dem so zutraefe, wie Geissler es beschreibt, denn ...

...wie z.B. der Spiegel schreibt:[blau]

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Zitat von Swann im Beitrag #164

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #149

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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[blau]Wenn nur die Haelfte, nur ein Viertel von dem so zutraefe, wie Geissler es beschreibt, denn ...

...wie z.B. der Spiegel schreibt:[blau]

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Die SPONties beim Spiegel kratzen schnellstmöglich alles zusammen, was sich irgendwie gegen den neuen Papst verwenden liesse. Nicht mal die ersten Tage der Amts(ein)führung werden da noch abgewartet.
Empörungs-Journalismus auf niedrigstem Niveau.

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Zitat von Landegaard im Beitrag #165

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Papst ist Thema, also muss Papst-Text her.

Ich indes spare mir das und warte tatsächlich seine ersten Statements. Ich kann nur sagen, er macht einen symphatischen ersten Eindruck.

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Zitat von Swann im Beitrag #163

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #148

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Herr Geißler ist ja ganz aus dem Häuschen:

http://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellsch...g-a-888889.html

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Geissler ist ja durch die gleiche Schule gegangen wie Bergoglio. Die wichtigsten Sätze aus dem Interview:

"Welche weiteren Veränderungen sind zu erwarten?
Geißler: Kampf gegen Armut und Korruption auf der ganzen Welt sowie in Argentinien. Den Anhängern wieder zeigen, dass die katholische Kirche eine Volkskirche ist, keine Amtskirche.
...
Dem wichtigsten Orden wird [durch die Wahl Bergoglios] eine große Bedeutung beigemessen, die ihm von den letzten beiden Päpsten genommen wurde. In den vergangenen Jahrzehnten wurde er unter anderem auch zurückgedrängt, weil er sich für eine politisch offensivere Armutsbekämpfung einsetzte, für die Theologie der Befreiung.
...
Ein Vorbild für alle Prälaten: Raus aus den Palästen, leben wie das Volk. Er selbst führte ein äußerst bescheidenes Leben in Argentinien. Die Jesuiten haben zwei Grundsätze: Bescheidenheit und Demut. Demut heißt Wahrhaftigkeit gegenüber sich selbst. Diesen Eindruck machte Jorge Mario Bergoglio auch auf mich. Und das macht ihn unabhängig.
...
Man kann sich wieder mehr freuen, katholisch zu sein."

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Zitat von Maga-neu im Beitrag #167

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Ich denke, Geissler wird sich noch wundern... Dieser Papst scheint für einige Überraschungen gut zu sein. Ob sie Heiner Geißler alle erfreuen werden, weiß ich nicht.

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Ganz witzig geschrieben:

http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Weg-vom-Prun...le10300311.html

Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #169

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Ganz witzig geschrieben:

http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Weg-vom-Prun...le10300311.html

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #170

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #169

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Ganz witzig geschrieben:

http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Weg-vom-Prun...le10300311.html

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Tiefgruendig humorvoll.
Bei "...wie die katholische Antwort auf Luther lautet ..." konnte ich mir ein Schmunzeln nicht verkneifen. Schliesslich gibt es mit dieser Antwort ja seit 1517 praktische Erfahrung. Bei Protestanten wie Katholiken.
Anscheinend ist man aber doch immer noch beim formulieren.:-)

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Zitat von Maga-neu im Beitrag #171

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #170

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Zitat von Leto_II. im Beitrag #169

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Ganz witzig geschrieben:

http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Weg-vom-Prun...le10300311.html

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Tiefgruendig humorvoll.
Bei "...wie die katholische Antwort auf Luther lautet ..." konnte ich mir ein Schmunzeln nicht verkneifen. Schliesslich gibt es mit dieser Antwort ja seit 1517 praktische Erfahrung. Bei Protestanten wie Katholiken.
Anscheinend ist man aber doch immer noch beim formulieren.:-)

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Es ist recht einfach: "Weg vom Prunk, weg vom Ehrgeiz und sich auf das besinnen, was vom Evangelium her eigentlich Sache der Kirche ist, nämlich der Einsatz für diejenigen, für die sich sonst keiner einsetzt, der Einsatz für die Verfolgten, für die Schwachen, für die Armen, für die Unterdrückten."

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Zitat von Maga-neu im Beitrag #171

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Offensichtlich hat es den Mächtigen in Argentinien, die gerne selbst vorgeben, Anwälte der Armen zu sein, und ihren journalistischen Erfüllungsgehilfen nicht gefallen, dass es in ihrer Hauptstadt einen "Kardinal der Armen" gab. Und offensichtlich hat man die Chance genutzt, Kübel Dreck auf den unbequemen Mann zu schütten. Ich bin gespannt auf das Gesicht von Präsidentin Kirchner, wenn der "Oppositionsführer" am nächsten Dienstag offiziell in sein Papstamt eingeführt wird.

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Und so beginnt es dann:

Vatican Lashes Out At ‘Defamatory’ And ‘Anti-Clerical Left-Wing’ Forces
The Vatican lashed out at what it called a “defamatory” and “anti-clerical left-wing” campaign to discredit Pope Francis over his actions during Argentina’s 1976-1983 military junta, saying no credible accusation had ever stuck against the new pope.

While the former Jorge Mario Bergoglio, like most other Argentines, failed to openly confront the murderous dictatorship, human rights activists differ on how much responsibility he personally deserves.

The Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi noted Friday that a Jesuit who was kidnapped during the dictatorship in a case that involved Bergoglio had issued a statement earlier in the day saying the two had reconciled.

Lombardi also noted that Argentine courts had never accused Bergoglio of any crime and that on the contrary, there is ample evidence of the role he played protecting people from the military as it kidnapped and killed thousands of people in a “dirty war” to eliminate leftist opponents.

He said the accusations were made long ago “by anti-clerical left-wing elements to attack the church and must be decisively rejected.” ....
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/vatica...ces.php?ref=fpb

So much for the "anti-clerical left-wing":
Frage: Bisher hat sich kein Papst nach Franz von Assisi benannt, obwohl dies ein sehr berühmter Heiliger ist. Woran liegt das?

Antwort: Ich bin Ihnen richtig dankbar für diese Frage. Das ist doch ganz einfach: Wenn Sie gerne Mercedes fahren, eine große Wohnung und schöne Pferde haben und jede Menge zu saufen, dann benennen Sie sich nicht nach dem Heiligen Franz, sondern nehmen jemand anderen. Wenn Sie es aber doch tun, dann heißt das: Schluss mit Mercedes-Karossen, Schluss mit Helikopterflügen, Schluss mit der Prasserei.

Frage:Löst er das ein?

Antwort: Heute habe ich einen Blick auf den Parkplatz des Heiligen Vaters geworfen. Dort standen bestimmt ein halbes Dutzend großer Mercedes-Limousinen. Ganz neue Dinger, die kosten bestimmt jeweils über 100.000 Euro. Aber da stand auch ein VW Passat. Und jetzt raten Sie mal, mit welchem Auto Franziskus heute Morgen in die Basilika Santa Maria Maggiore gefahren ist...."
http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Jetzt-kommt-...le10298006.html

Oh that "anti-clerical left-wing"....:-)

Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #172

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Ich denke es wird da fuer die Politiker in Agentinier nun diesbezueglich einfacher. Der unbequeme Prediger ist ja jetzt weit weg -auf der anderen Seite der Erde.
Und der predigt damit nicht mehr in Argentinien speziell zu argentinischen Glaeubigen und gegen die argentinische Regierung, sondern in Italien und da an und fuer die gesamte katholische Welt.[/blau]

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Zitat von Willie im Beitrag #173

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Und so beginnt es dann:

Vatican Lashes Out At ‘Defamatory’ And ‘Anti-Clerical Left-Wing’ Forces
The Vatican lashed out at what it called a “defamatory” and “anti-clerical left-wing” campaign to discredit Pope Francis over his actions during Argentina’s 1976-1983 military junta, saying no credible accusation had ever stuck against the new pope.

While the former Jorge Mario Bergoglio, like most other Argentines, failed to openly confront the murderous dictatorship, human rights activists differ on how much responsibility he personally deserves.

The Vatican spokesman the Rev. Federico Lombardi noted Friday that a Jesuit who was kidnapped during the dictatorship in a case that involved Bergoglio had issued a statement earlier in the day saying the two had reconciled.

Lombardi also noted that Argentine courts had never accused Bergoglio of any crime and that on the contrary, there is ample evidence of the role he played protecting people from the military as it kidnapped and killed thousands of people in a “dirty war” to eliminate leftist opponents.

He said the accusations were made long ago “by anti-clerical left-wing elements to attack the church and must be decisively rejected.” ....
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/vatica...ces.php?ref=fpb

So much for the "anti-clerical left-wing":
Frage: Bisher hat sich kein Papst nach Franz von Assisi benannt, obwohl dies ein sehr berühmter Heiliger ist. Woran liegt das?

Antwort: Ich bin Ihnen richtig dankbar für diese Frage. Das ist doch ganz einfach: Wenn Sie gerne Mercedes fahren, eine große Wohnung und schöne Pferde haben und jede Menge zu saufen, dann benennen Sie sich nicht nach dem Heiligen Franz, sondern nehmen jemand anderen. Wenn Sie es aber doch tun, dann heißt das: Schluss mit Mercedes-Karossen, Schluss mit Helikopterflügen, Schluss mit der Prasserei.

Frage:Löst er das ein?

Antwort: Heute habe ich einen Blick auf den Parkplatz des Heiligen Vaters geworfen. Dort standen bestimmt ein halbes Dutzend großer Mercedes-Limousinen. Ganz neue Dinger, die kosten bestimmt jeweils über 100.000 Euro. Aber da stand auch ein VW Passat. Und jetzt raten Sie mal, mit welchem Auto Franziskus heute Morgen in die Basilika Santa Maria Maggiore gefahren ist...."
http://www.n-tv.de/panorama/Jetzt-kommt-...le10298006.html

Oh that "anti-clerical left-wing"....:-)

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